From: maa32 <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Neighborly transmigration and other observations Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 11:17:04 -0700 In response to my theory that Horn is in Babbie, Nutria wrote >The rest of your post is interesting, and you may be right, but at present I'm more inclined to think this was a Neighbor calling to Horn as a "baby." I don't see evidence that Horn can "transmigrate his soul" in any way apart from Neighborly help. Maybe I'm forgetting something. Doesn't he only have such astral visitations and transportations when in contact with a Neighbor or a Neighborly artifact (such as an inhumu)? > Well, it seems to me that you answer your own objection, there. If a Neighbor is calling to him as Babbie, then he IS around a Neighbor or one of their artifacts, especially if he lays his head upon their knee. How else can you read that whole part about the hus being more human than scylla in the astral part, and his special treatment of Hoof? Come on, admit that I'm right, just this once. Remember the dream that Hide had of a doll searching for him? he hides under a couch with eight (or ten) legs. There is a two legged soul in the hus, and I'm pretty sure it is, by the end of the book, Horn. Also, look at the prophecy of Marble: the last thing for Horn is riding a beast with three horns, after wealth and command. He had wealth and command in Gaon, then he winds up in Babbie. I really think it fits pretty good, and I also think that Brother, Sister, and Cugino (cousin) are all somehow related and somehow involved with the vanished people. Cousin cuts his the narrator's staff out of a liana vine, and the vanished people are usually associated with trees. If you don't believe me, re-read chapter 17 of Return to the Whorl (narrated by Hoof): He took me with him. Look at all this great evidence for all my theories in that chapter (I shall only quote from that chapter now, I think it is a very important one): on the ring that should be with Sinew unless Sinew (or Auk and Chenille) returned to Blue with it and Oreb stole it: "This was given me by a woman I called Seawrack." "I held it up to my eye. The weather was cool and clear, the wind northeast. .. I noticed the limb of a tree floating upright to starboard. The leaves were still silver and green, and the limb was so big it looked like a whole tree even though I would think there must have been a trunk floating the regular way since a floating tree does not stick up like that. There was somebody sitting in one of the branches, and it was one of the Vanished People." The vanished people sit on those trees like the vines do. Later Hoof says, "There must be a word for the time when we see something we have seen before turn out to be something else, like when a stick is a snake without moving." The narrator's stick is one of those liana vines, and there is some kind of connection between the sentient vegetation on green and the vanished people. I am inclined to believe that the inhumi are descended from an engineered vegetation meant to adapt to its environment and assuming the qualities of animals as it fed from them, and people as it fed from them. And since I am quoting from that chapter, let's look at how Hide talks about Lune (if you absolutely despise this Green as Lune of the future then you might want to just stop reading my post here, because I am going to put a bunch of quotes together that you may or may not see any connection in, but I think it's interesting. I myself, as I said, am just fooling with ideas and don't take this particular assertion as seriously as I take the Horn as Babbie one): "Green came up, bigger and brighter than we ever see it on blue." Hoof talks about making an anchor. An anchor keeps you in one place. When they journey to the red sun whorl, they go from one boat to another, from shore to shore: the environment has to resemble the one they leave from, but this is not the case in most of the other astral journeys that have occured. He talks about how the difference between the Red Sun Whorl and Blue was "in the wind" and the water, which had much more salt in it. He repeats several times that the water is much saltier on Urth. "It was like our sea, and it was not. If you wanted to look for what was the same, there was a lot. But if you wanted to look for what was different, there was a lot too. The smell was different. The color was not the same, either, but it was hard to say just what was changed. That may have been the dark sky, mostly, and the stars. This sea knew night was cming, when everything would die. There was more foam, and I think this Red Sun Sea had more salt in it." Why does he keep saying it is more salty? We all know that if the polar ice caps melted, the sea would rise and the salt would be diluted. If the sun's gravitational pull were increased, it could also disturb the orbit of Lune and pull it out. The color would change with a rejuvanted sun. And that whole thing about Seawrack talking about a huge wall underwater is just bizarre. All these changes can be eliminated by the coming of a new sun. If we read the conclusion of the Book of the Short Sun in light of the importance of communicating with the Red Sun Whorl Scylla to learn from Scylla (the mother) how to get to Seawrack, I think it infuses something of the importance of keeping an eye on Seawrack and the mother to the entire text. After they return to Blue, Hoof notes: "Out on the water there were the stars and quite a bit of light from Green; for nighttime it was really pretty bright, but there was sort of a shadow between the side and the water. Green was halfway up over to starboard. So to port there was this sadow, and I fel like she was down there, watching and listening, adn she could make the bird talk for her when she wanted to." Greater Scylla is on the Short Sun whorl as well as on the Red Sun Whorl. On the vanished people, Hoof has a very interesting thing to say while he considers Nessus: "So it was all so big that when I looked at it, it was hard to breathe. ...Finally I shut my eyes and would not look at it anymore. I had seen the way things really are, and I knew it. I knew that I was going to have to forget it as much as I could if I wanted to go onliving. After Father left I was still curious about the Vanished People, and I asked a man I met one time about them because he seemed like somebody who might know something. He said there were things that we are not supposed to know. I think he was wrong, but right, too. I do not thik that there is anything about the Vanished People that we should not know, just a whole lot that we do not. but the way things really are is something that we cannot deal with. I had to shut my eyes, and if you had been there you would have had to shur yours, too." What do the Vanished People have to do with the soon to be submerged city of Nessus? And here are all my time references: In on Blue's Water, the mother sings a song of time. In In Green's Jungles, the narrator says his astral travel is a dream in his mind. In Return to the whorl the narrator says the only way to go back in time is through dreams. Hoof observes "It's been three hundred years." Father says, "It's been much longer than that" (of course I am aware of the light speed time distortion) and in Chapter 19 in Return to the Whorl Hoof says "Father stopped talking, and it seemed to me that he had stopped a long time ago someplace a long way from where I was." There are a lot of clues that suggest that Blue and Green are the same, including blatantly calling Lune Green and that fact about a huge wall of the vanished people, who are also called "The people of that Town". Why can't we handle the truth about the vanished people, as Hoof puts it? Is it something about ourselves (humanity, in any case)? I really don't care so much about this Blue/Green \Ushas/Lune thing at all, but I do care about the big symbols: the wind, vines and the narrators staff that might walk and talk, and the fate of Horn's soul --> re-read chapter 17 and 19 of Return to the Whorl, and you must face up to the fact that Horn is in Babbie.