Message-ID:
<019e01c2521c$941cea00$d5456c42@akt>
From: "Alice K. Turner"
<aturner6@nyc.rr.com>
To: <urth@urth.net>
Subject: Re: (urth) Newt's main referent
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 21:03:41 -0400
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Good call, Nick. Some major convention (WorldCon, I guess) was held
in, I
think, Atlanta in the 80s and Newt, for reasons that I think had to
do with
Bruce Sterling, was the banquet speaker. Though I'm not much of
a
conventioneer, I attended this (my parents lived in Atlanta) as a
friend of
Lucius Shepard, and, though I never met him there, I'm pretty sure
Wolfe was
on hand. I'd only barely heard of Gingrich at that point. But, among
the
more politicially minded, there was much furor, and a contingent,
including
Lucius (but not me), ostentatiously walked out of the banquet as
Gingrich
was introduced. Can't remember much about the speech or the
evening
otherwise except that both were boring--but that you expect.
Gingrich seemed
more menacing later, but that was the explicit SF connection. (Sorry
to be
so vague on particulars, but I've sort of accidentally attended a
few
conventions or parts of them; the only ones I remember well are
those I'd
planned in advance, and this was a last-minute thing--if it wasn't
Atlanta I
apologize, but it was somewhere else I just happened to be for
other
reasons.)
-alga
> Considering when EXODUS FROM THE LONG SUN was being
> written (1994-5), Councillor Newt has a pretty obvious
> real-life referent: Newt Gingrich, elected Speaker of
> the US House of Representatives after the unexpected
> Republican congressional election victories of
> November 1994. From what we see of Newt, the
> resemblance is pretty profound...
>
> --Nick Gevers.
>
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Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 01:16:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Straight <straight@email.unc.edu>
To: urth@urth.net
Subject: Re: (urth) Newt's main referent
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On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Alice K. Turner wrote:
> Good call, Nick. Some major convention (WorldCon, I guess) was
held in, I
> think, Atlanta in the 80s and Newt, for reasons that I think
had to do with
> Bruce Sterling, was the banquet speaker.
Also, at the time, Newt was one of the most famous science-fiction
writers
in America (along with William Shatner and, arguably, Stephen
King).
-Rostrum
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Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 01:29:43 -0700
From: maa32 <maa32@dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Subject: (urth) male hyacinth
Sender: maa32 <maa32@dana.ucc.nau.edu>
To: urth@urth.net
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A couple months ago I posted on the evidence for a male hyacinth,
and I was
taken aback to discover that someone else thought that up
independently - it
was kind of a joke. Let me briefly go over why I thought so:
right before
Silk meets Hyacinth for the first time, he finds all kinds of
statues of boy
toys for the gods: Ganymede and Catamitus, both boy lovers that I
normally
associate with Musk. But Hyacinthus is the same kind of mythic
figure: male
lover of Apollo, stricken dead by the jealous wind. But
instead of Musk, he
immediately meets Hyacinth, who has fake breasts. Then later,
in Calde of the
Long Sun ,Patera Quetzal, when Silk claims that he slept with a
woman, says he
doesn't believe that his augur has done that. It sounds like
nothing, but
Wolfe has a ton of those double entendres in his work. I'm
just surprised
that someone else came up with the same thematic idea - the evidence
isn't as
sketchy as the evidence that suggest that Patera Pike is Blood's
father, but
it's pretty sketchy. I don't see the chem part as convincing,
but I think
Hyacinth could certainly be an ex-male who had a little
transformation enacted
and it explains the sterility of Silk's relationship.
I don't know how seriously to take these things, really. Not
as seriously as
a take a lot of the other stuff I post.
Marc Aramini
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From: matthew.malthouse@guardian.co.uk
To: urth@urth.net
Message-ID:
<80256C28.0036FA7B.00@ldnmta01.guardian.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:34:24 +0100
Subject: Re: FW: (urth) FW: Elucidations of the Long
Sun:Hyacinth
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On 31/08/2002 19:24:14 Andy Robertson wrote:
>Is it really possible that all the discussions on this list have
been
this
>loony, and it is only now I come back after some time away that
I am able
to
>judge them properly? :-)
A break does provide one with perspective, does it not?
;-)
Matthew
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Message-ID: <007301c25251$02914a60$f3919ed9@abcomcus>
From: "Andy Robertson"
<andywrobertson@clara.co.uk>
To: <urth@urth.net>
Subject: Re: FW: (urth) FW: Elucidations of the Long
Sun:Hyacinth
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 08:18:54 +0100
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Ah well, I love it anyway. But the idea that Hyacinth is
a transsexual bio
does seem slightly more probable, I confess: though I really see no
need for
it.
hartshorn
----- Original Message -----
From: <matthew.malthouse@guardian.co.uk>
To: <urth@urth.net>
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: FW: (urth) FW: Elucidations of the Long
Sun:Hyacinth
>
>
>
> On 31/08/2002 19:24:14 Andy Robertson wrote:
>
> >Is it really possible that all the discussions on this list
have been
> this
> >loony, and it is only now I come back after some time away
that I am able
> to
> >judge them properly? :-)
>
> A break does provide one with perspective, does it not?
;-)
>
> Matthew
>
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From: matthew.malthouse@guardian.co.uk
To: urth@urth.net
Message-ID:
<80256C28.0038FC81.00@ldnmta01.guardian.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 10:56:20 +0100
Subject: Re: (urth) male hyacinth
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Reply-To: urth@urth.net
On 02/09/2002 09:29:43 maa32 wrote:
>A couple months ago I posted on the evidence for a male
hyacinth, and I
was
>taken aback to discover that someone else thought that up
independently -
it
>was kind of a joke. Let me briefly go over why I thought
so: right
before
>Silk meets Hyacinth for the first time, he finds all kinds of
statues of
boy
>toys for the gods: Ganymede and Catamitus, both boy lovers that
I
normally
>associate with Musk. But Hyacinthus is the same kind of
mythic figure:
male
>lover of Apollo, stricken dead by the jealous wind. But
instead of Musk,
he
>immediately meets Hyacinth, who has fake breasts.
I too the statuary, Hyacinth's potential androgeny etc as
re-inforcement
of Musk's character and lifestyle. I'm far from convinced that
- even
with Wolfe's infamous multi-layered work - there's any need to see
more to
it than that.
If one posits that Hyacinth is ex-male, male , chem male or female
one has
to answer what purpose it serves. More what purpose would it
serve to
have Silk fall in love with such a being. That would seem
contrary to
Wolfe's normal path in such matters and would require
explanation.
Matthew
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