URTH
  FIND in
<--prev V12 next-->

From: "Betty, Brian" <BBetty@foleyhoag.com>
Subject: (whorl) Biblical Criticism (was: Fallible Narrators)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:32:42 

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0F4D6.7CD5A9D0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote: "The issue here is not how a hypothetical Bluish
reader might respond when faced with the Books of Silk and Horn; the issue
is how we respond when faced with the Books of the Suns of Various Lengths
-- [snip] -- specifically, the question "How the hell are we supposed to
know what actually happened?" How are we to make (narrative) sense of this
welter of provenances and possible provenances, this scribbling of narrators
and editors, interpolators and (maybe) copyists, any one of whom may be
almost-arbitrarily unreliable?"

Okay, let's think about this in a different way. Let's pretend that Wolfe,
like me, recognises in the Bible a problem: aren't these same questions to
be posed about the Hebrew Bible and/or the Christian Bible? In fact, this is
what I study. How are we, either as unbelievers or believers, to interpret
what actually happened when the Bible is insane? No offense meant - I love
reading the Bible and am reading it in Hebrew, but it is self-contradictory
- from Genesis 1 on! This is not questioned by the Catholic Church, either -
Catholics are permitted to engage in Biblical criticism.

So imagine approaching the Bible, which has little cohesion or coherence,
but clearly makes some narrative sense, even though it trails off, veers off
course, repeats itself, etc. Imagine you believe it is attempting to impart
the truth of what happened, an important truth that changed the world
forever. Repeat and rinse.

"My point (All together now... "and I do have one") is that the position
into which Wolfe places us, vis-a-vis the events which hypothetically
underlie the LONG/SUN books, is homologous to the position in which an
engaged and thoughtful reader, even a skeptical one, finds herself when
vis-a-vis the events which hypothetically underlie the Gospels -- "Layer 1
of Gospel formation," to use the RCC terminology: the actual events,
whatever they were, that occurred in Judaea and the surrounding area ca.
4BC-33AD. (That "fairly unthoughtful" reader, in fact,  would be in a
position homologous to that of of a "every word of Scripture is literally
factual" fundamentalist.) I am not, of course, prepared to state that this
was Wolfe's intent. I do not claim to know his intent. I am stating that
this is an interesting homology, a use to which the Books can be put, if you
will; and that I would not be surprised to learn that this was one of
Wolfe's reasons for writing them the way he did, rather than some other way.
In an ideal world I should like to ask him about it, but this is not an
ideal world, and I don't expect the opportunity to arise any time soon."

I see you also appreciate this opinion!

I would go so far as to state this was an exploration of these issues, and
it is hard to imagine Wolfe did it unthinkingly...

Anna June

Surah 101: The Calamity (al-Qari'a) 
The qari'a
What is the qari'a?
What can tell you of the qari'a?
A day humankind are like moths scattered
And mountains are like fluffs of wool 
Whoever's scales weigh heavy
His is a life that is pleasing
His mother is Haayiyat
What can tell you what she is? 
Raging fire 


------_=_NextPart_001_01C0F4D6.7CD5A9D0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<TITLE></TITLE>

<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<P>Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote: "The issue here is <EM>not</EM> how a hypothetical 
Bluish reader might respond when faced with the Books of Silk and Horn; the 
issue is how <EM>we</EM> respond when faced with the Books of the Suns of 
Various Lengths -- [snip] -- specifically, the question "How the hell are we 
supposed to know what actually <EM>happened</EM>?" How are we to make 
(narrative) sense of this welter of provenances and possible provenances, this 
scribbling of narrators and editors, interpolators and (maybe) copyists, any one 
of whom <EM>may</EM> be almost-arbitrarily unreliable?"</P>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff>Okay, let's think about this in a different way. Let's 
pretend that Wolfe, like me, recognises in the Bible a problem: aren't these 
same questions to be posed about the Hebrew Bible and/or the Christian Bible? In 
fact, this is what I study. How are we, either as unbelievers or believers, to 
interpret what actually happened when the Bible is insane? No offense meant - I 
love reading the Bible and am reading it in Hebrew, but it is self-contradictory 
- from Genesis 1 on! This is not questioned by the Catholic Church, either - 
Catholics are permitted to engage in Biblical criticism.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff>So imagine approaching the Bible, which has little 
cohesion or coherence, but clearly makes <EM>some</EM> narrative sense, even 
though it trails off, veers off course, repeats itself, etc. Imagine you believe 
it is attempting to impart the truth of what happened, an <EM>important</EM> 
truth that changed the world forever. Repeat and rinse.</FONT></P>
<P>"My point (All together now... "and I do have one") is that the position into 
which Wolfe places us, vis-a-vis the events which hypothetically underlie the 
LONG/SUN books, is homologous to the position in which an engaged and thoughtful 
reader, even a skeptical one, finds herself when vis-a-vis the events which 
hypothetically underlie the Gospels -- "Layer 1 of Gospel formation," to use the 
RCC terminology: the actual events, <EM>whatever they were</EM>, that occurred 
in Judaea and the surrounding area ca. 4BC-33AD. (That "fairly unthoughtful" 
reader, in fact,&nbsp; would be in a position homologous to that of of a "every 
word of Scripture is literally factual" fundamentalist.) I am not, of course, 
prepared to state that this was Wolfe's intent. I do not claim to know his 
intent. I am stating that this is an interesting homology, a use to which the 
Books can be put, if you will; and that I would not be surprised to learn that 
this was <EM>one</EM> of Wolfe's reasons for writing them the way he did, rather 
than some other way. In an ideal world I should like to ask him about it, but 
this is not an ideal world, and I don't expect the opportunity to arise any time 
soon."</P>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff>I see you also appreciate this opinion!</FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff>I <EM>would</EM> go so far as to state this was an 
exploration of these issues, and it is hard to imagine Wolfe did it 
unthinkingly...</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="BernhardFashion BT"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=4>Anna 
June<BR></FONT><BR><FONT size=2>Surah 101: The Calamity 
(<I>al-Qari'a</I>)</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>The</FONT></FONT></FONT><I><FONT 
face="BernhardFashion BT" color=#0000ff> </FONT><FONT face="BernhardFashion BT" 
color=#0000ff size=2>qari'a<BR></FONT></I><FONT face="BernhardFashion BT"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>What is the</FONT><I> <FONT 
size=2>qari'a</FONT></I></FONT></FONT><FONT face="BernhardFashion BT"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>?<BR>What can tell you of the</FONT><I> <FONT 
size=2>qari'a</FONT></I></FONT></FONT><FONT face="BernhardFashion BT"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>?<BR>A day humankind are like moths scattered<BR>And 
mountains are like fluffs of wool</FONT> <BR></FONT></FONT><FONT 
face="BernhardFashion BT" color=#0000ff size=2>Whoever's scales weigh 
heavy<BR>His is a life that is pleasing<BR>His mother is</FONT><I><FONT 
face="BernhardFashion BT" color=#0000ff> </FONT><FONT face="BernhardFashion BT" 
color=#0000ff size=2>Haayiyat<BR></FONT></I><FONT 
face="BernhardFashion BT"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>What can tell you 
what she is?</FONT> <BR><I><FONT size=2>Raging fire</FONT></I> 
</FONT></FONT></P></BODY></HTML>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0F4D6.7CD5A9D0--

*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun.
*More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.moonmilk.com/whorl/
*To leave the list, send "unsubscribe" to whorl-request@lists.best.com
*If it's Wolfe but not Long Sun, please use the URTH list: urth@lists.best.com



<--prev V12 next-->