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From: "Betty, Brian" <BBetty@foleyhoag.com> Subject: (whorl) Biblical Criticism (was: Fallible Narrators) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:32:42 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0F4D6.7CD5A9D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote: "The issue here is not how a hypothetical Bluish reader might respond when faced with the Books of Silk and Horn; the issue is how we respond when faced with the Books of the Suns of Various Lengths -- [snip] -- specifically, the question "How the hell are we supposed to know what actually happened?" How are we to make (narrative) sense of this welter of provenances and possible provenances, this scribbling of narrators and editors, interpolators and (maybe) copyists, any one of whom may be almost-arbitrarily unreliable?" Okay, let's think about this in a different way. Let's pretend that Wolfe, like me, recognises in the Bible a problem: aren't these same questions to be posed about the Hebrew Bible and/or the Christian Bible? In fact, this is what I study. How are we, either as unbelievers or believers, to interpret what actually happened when the Bible is insane? No offense meant - I love reading the Bible and am reading it in Hebrew, but it is self-contradictory - from Genesis 1 on! This is not questioned by the Catholic Church, either - Catholics are permitted to engage in Biblical criticism. So imagine approaching the Bible, which has little cohesion or coherence, but clearly makes some narrative sense, even though it trails off, veers off course, repeats itself, etc. Imagine you believe it is attempting to impart the truth of what happened, an important truth that changed the world forever. Repeat and rinse. "My point (All together now... "and I do have one") is that the position into which Wolfe places us, vis-a-vis the events which hypothetically underlie the LONG/SUN books, is homologous to the position in which an engaged and thoughtful reader, even a skeptical one, finds herself when vis-a-vis the events which hypothetically underlie the Gospels -- "Layer 1 of Gospel formation," to use the RCC terminology: the actual events, whatever they were, that occurred in Judaea and the surrounding area ca. 4BC-33AD. (That "fairly unthoughtful" reader, in fact, would be in a position homologous to that of of a "every word of Scripture is literally factual" fundamentalist.) I am not, of course, prepared to state that this was Wolfe's intent. I do not claim to know his intent. I am stating that this is an interesting homology, a use to which the Books can be put, if you will; and that I would not be surprised to learn that this was one of Wolfe's reasons for writing them the way he did, rather than some other way. In an ideal world I should like to ask him about it, but this is not an ideal world, and I don't expect the opportunity to arise any time soon." I see you also appreciate this opinion! I would go so far as to state this was an exploration of these issues, and it is hard to imagine Wolfe did it unthinkingly... Anna June Surah 101: The Calamity (al-Qari'a) The qari'a What is the qari'a? What can tell you of the qari'a? A day humankind are like moths scattered And mountains are like fluffs of wool Whoever's scales weigh heavy His is a life that is pleasing His mother is Haayiyat What can tell you what she is? Raging fire ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0F4D6.7CD5A9D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <TITLE></TITLE> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <P>Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote: "The issue here is <EM>not</EM> how a hypothetical Bluish reader might respond when faced with the Books of Silk and Horn; the issue is how <EM>we</EM> respond when faced with the Books of the Suns of Various Lengths -- [snip] -- specifically, the question "How the hell are we supposed to know what actually <EM>happened</EM>?" How are we to make (narrative) sense of this welter of provenances and possible provenances, this scribbling of narrators and editors, interpolators and (maybe) copyists, any one of whom <EM>may</EM> be almost-arbitrarily unreliable?"</P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff>Okay, let's think about this in a different way. Let's pretend that Wolfe, like me, recognises in the Bible a problem: aren't these same questions to be posed about the Hebrew Bible and/or the Christian Bible? In fact, this is what I study. How are we, either as unbelievers or believers, to interpret what actually happened when the Bible is insane? No offense meant - I love reading the Bible and am reading it in Hebrew, but it is self-contradictory - from Genesis 1 on! This is not questioned by the Catholic Church, either - Catholics are permitted to engage in Biblical criticism.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff>So imagine approaching the Bible, which has little cohesion or coherence, but clearly makes <EM>some</EM> narrative sense, even though it trails off, veers off course, repeats itself, etc. Imagine you believe it is attempting to impart the truth of what happened, an <EM>important</EM> truth that changed the world forever. Repeat and rinse.</FONT></P> <P>"My point (All together now... "and I do have one") is that the position into which Wolfe places us, vis-a-vis the events which hypothetically underlie the LONG/SUN books, is homologous to the position in which an engaged and thoughtful reader, even a skeptical one, finds herself when vis-a-vis the events which hypothetically underlie the Gospels -- "Layer 1 of Gospel formation," to use the RCC terminology: the actual events, <EM>whatever they were</EM>, that occurred in Judaea and the surrounding area ca. 4BC-33AD. (That "fairly unthoughtful" reader, in fact, would be in a position homologous to that of of a "every word of Scripture is literally factual" fundamentalist.) I am not, of course, prepared to state that this was Wolfe's intent. I do not claim to know his intent. I am stating that this is an interesting homology, a use to which the Books can be put, if you will; and that I would not be surprised to learn that this was <EM>one</EM> of Wolfe's reasons for writing them the way he did, rather than some other way. In an ideal world I should like to ask him about it, but this is not an ideal world, and I don't expect the opportunity to arise any time soon."</P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff>I see you also appreciate this opinion!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff>I <EM>would</EM> go so far as to state this was an exploration of these issues, and it is hard to imagine Wolfe did it unthinkingly...</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="BernhardFashion BT"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=4>Anna June<BR></FONT><BR><FONT size=2>Surah 101: The Calamity (<I>al-Qari'a</I>)</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>The</FONT></FONT></FONT><I><FONT face="BernhardFashion BT" color=#0000ff> </FONT><FONT face="BernhardFashion BT" color=#0000ff size=2>qari'a<BR></FONT></I><FONT face="BernhardFashion BT"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>What is the</FONT><I> <FONT size=2>qari'a</FONT></I></FONT></FONT><FONT face="BernhardFashion BT"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>?<BR>What can tell you of the</FONT><I> <FONT size=2>qari'a</FONT></I></FONT></FONT><FONT face="BernhardFashion BT"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>?<BR>A day humankind are like moths scattered<BR>And mountains are like fluffs of wool</FONT> <BR></FONT></FONT><FONT face="BernhardFashion BT" color=#0000ff size=2>Whoever's scales weigh heavy<BR>His is a life that is pleasing<BR>His mother is</FONT><I><FONT face="BernhardFashion BT" color=#0000ff> </FONT><FONT face="BernhardFashion BT" color=#0000ff size=2>Haayiyat<BR></FONT></I><FONT face="BernhardFashion BT"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>What can tell you what she is?</FONT> <BR><I><FONT size=2>Raging fire</FONT></I> </FONT></FONT></P></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0F4D6.7CD5A9D0-- *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. *More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.moonmilk.com/whorl/ *To leave the list, send "unsubscribe" to whorl-request@lists.best.com *If it's Wolfe but not Long Sun, please use the URTH list: urth@lists.best.com