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From: "James Wynn" 
Subject: (urth) Chrasmological Writings - "Open Eyes"
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:02:49 -0600

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Andrew Bollen pondered the source of the following Chrasmological =
quotation:
"A simple way would be to admit that myth is neither irresponsible =
fantasy, nor the object of weighty psychology, or any such thing. It is =
wholly other, and requires to be looked at with open eyes."

Josh Geller first suggested:
"Could easily be 'Hamlet's Mill'."


And when speculation continued without considering his suggestion, Josh =
defiantly asserted:
"I really do think it is from 'Hamlet's Mill'. Anyone who enjoys Gene =
Wolfe's fiction owes it to themselves to read 'Hamlet's Mill'."


Well I still didn't take Josh's help for what it was worth, but while =
wandering along one of Wolfe's byways I happened to come across Georgio =
de Santillana (who co-authored 'Hamlet's Mill' with Herth von Dechend). =
"Well", thinks I, "who am I to blow against the wind?"

So I bought 'Hamlet's Mill", and thought, "Oh my, another very thick =
book to read". But I enjoyed every word and, sure enough....

****at the end of section one of the Epilogue, "The Lost Treasure", is =
the very quote.******

I must thank Josh because I probably wouldn't have elected to try this =
book without his recommendation. Aside from the beautiful merit of the =
book in its own right, I found rich veins of Wolfean source material.

For those who may not know, Shakespeare derived his Hamlet from the Dane =
Saxo Grammaticus' Latin work which included a story about the prince =
Amlethus. Santillana and Dechend argue that Amlethus is the Norse =
Amlohdi who owned  "a fabled mill which in his own time ground out peace =
and plenty. Later, in decaying times, it ground out salt; and now =
finally, having landed at the bottom of the sea, it is grinding rock and =
sand, creating a vast whirlpool, the Maelstrom which is supposed to be =
the way to the land of the dead."

The "millstone" to which they refer is spinning heavens. The center of =
the Mill is the polar star.=20

Graves asserted that true poetry is mythological, that it conveys the =
hidden roots of all poetry and religion. Santillana and Dechend assert =
that true **mythology** is cosmological; that it conveys the story of =
the stars and the "great catastrophe" caused by the Precession of the =
Equinox (when the millstone became "unhinged"). This implicitly denies =
(actually they contemptuously deny it) Graves attempt to derive Greek =
mythology from ancient religio-political upheavals on the Peloponese.

From this one "great scientific marvel" of science -- the moving of the =
polar center and banishing of constellations "to the underworld", "to =
beneath the ocean",  the writers have attempted to connect practically =
all the great myths: Prometheus, Vishnu, the Flood, Samson, Hercules, =
etc. etc.)

It would be impossible to describe here every insight into Wolfe's work =
that this book has provided me. However, note that as in Wolfe's Whorl, =
ancient man also saw himself in the middle of a spinning elongated =
whorl, and also that Horn build's a paper mill from which comes the =
"Book of Silk" through which, in a sense, the gods of the Heavens, =
especially Silk and the Outsider, were brought to the emmigrants.

Reading this work also begins to explain for me all the references to =
Hesphaestus, the Smith God.=20

And here is here is something for New Sun speculators attempting to nail =
down a relationship between Typhon and Severian:
"The story of the smith Kavag -- also written Kaweh, or Kawa -- is told =
by Firdausi in the book dealing with the 1000 years rule of Dahak, that =
fiendish tyrant out of whose shoulders grew two serpents that had to be =
fed with the brains of two young men every day. The predestined =
dragon-slayer and much expected savior, Faridun --- Avestan Thraethona =
-- .... had been saved from the snares of Dahak as a baby, and hidden =
away in the mountains."

On science fiction, Tolkien, and Wolfe's 'bleak" plots:
"Science fiction, when it is good, is a wholly valid attempt at =
restoring a mythical element, with its adventures and tragedies, it =
meditations on man's errors and man's fate. For true tragedy is an =
essential component or outcome of myth....Tokien's efforts at reviving =
the genre, whatever the talent employed, carry as much conviction as the =
traditional three-dollar bill."

So there ya go. Thanks again to Josh for identifying this quotation and =
putting me on to a really interesting book.=20

-- Crush

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Andrew Bollen pondered the source of = the following=20 Chrasmological quotation:
"A simple way would be to admit that = myth is=20 neither irresponsible fantasy, nor the object of weighty psychology, or = any such=20 thing. It is wholly other, and requires to be looked at with open=20 eyes."
 
Josh Geller first = suggested:
"Could easily be 'Hamlet's = Mill'."
 
And when speculation continued without = considering=20 his suggestion, Josh defiantly asserted:
"I really do think it is from 'Hamlet's Mill'. Anyone who enjoys = Gene=20 Wolfe's fiction owes it to themselves to read 'Hamlet's = Mill'."
 
Well I still didn't take Josh's help = for what it=20 was worth, but while wandering along one of Wolfe's byways I = happened to=20 come across Georgio de Santillana (who co-authored 'Hamlet's Mill' with = Herth=20 von Dechend). "Well", thinks I, "who am I to blow against the=20 wind?"
 
So I bought 'Hamlet's Mill", and = thought, "Oh my,=20 another very thick book to read". But I enjoyed every word and, sure=20 enough....
 
****at the end of section one of = the Epilogue,=20 "The Lost Treasure", is the very quote.******
 
I must thank Josh because I probably = wouldn't have=20 elected to try this book without his recommendation. Aside from the = beautiful=20 merit of the book in its own right, I found rich veins of Wolfean = source=20 material.
 
For those who may not know, Shakespeare = derived his=20 Hamlet from the Dane Saxo Grammaticus' Latin work which included a story = about=20 the prince Amlethus. Santillana and Dechend argue that = Amlethus is the=20 Norse Amlohdi who owned  "a fabled mill which in his own time = ground=20 out peace and plenty. Later, in decaying times, it ground out salt; and = now=20 finally, having landed at the bottom of the sea, it is grinding rock and = sand,=20 creating a vast whirlpool, the Maelstrom which is supposed to be the way = to the=20 land of the dead."
 
The "millstone" to which they refer=20 is spinning heavens. The center of the Mill is the polar=20 star. 
 
Graves asserted that true poetry=20 is mythological, that it conveys the hidden roots of all poetry and = religion. Santillana and Dechend assert that true **mythology** is = cosmological;=20 that it conveys the story of the stars and the "great catastrophe" = caused by the=20 Precession of the Equinox (when the millstone became "unhinged"). This=20 implicitly denies (actually they contemptuously deny it) Graves = attempt to=20 derive Greek mythology from ancient religio-political upheavals on the=20 Peloponese.
 
From this one "great scientific marvel" = of science=20 -- the moving of the polar center and banishing of constellations "to = the=20 underworld", "to beneath the ocean",  the writers have = attempted to=20 connect practically all the great myths: Prometheus, Vishnu, the Flood, = Samson,=20 Hercules, etc. etc.)
 
It would be impossible to describe here = every=20 insight into Wolfe's work that this book has provided me. However, = note that as in Wolfe's Whorl, ancient man = also saw=20 himself in the middle of a spinning elongated whorl, and also = that Horn=20 build's a paper mill from which comes the "Book of Silk" through which, = in a=20 sense, the gods of the Heavens, especially Silk and the Outsider, = were=20 brought to the emmigrants.
 
Reading this work also begins = to explain for=20 me all the references to Hesphaestus, the Smith God.
 
And here is here is something for = New Sun=20 speculators attempting to nail down a relationship between = Typhon and=20 Severian:
"The story of the smith Kavag -- also = written=20 Kaweh, or Kawa -- is told by Firdausi in the book dealing with the 1000 = years=20 rule of Dahak, that fiendish tyrant out of whose shoulders grew two = serpents=20 that had to be fed with the brains of two young men every day. The = predestined=20 dragon-slayer and much expected savior, Faridun --- Avestan Thraethona = -- ....=20 had been saved from the snares of Dahak as a baby, and hidden away in = the=20 mountains."
 
On science fiction, = Tolkien, and Wolfe's=20 'bleak" plots:
"Science fiction, when it is good, is a = wholly=20 valid attempt at restoring a mythical element, with its adventures and=20 tragedies, it meditations on man's errors and man's fate. For true = tragedy is an=20 essential component or outcome of myth....Tokien's efforts at reviving = the=20 genre, whatever the talent employed, carry as much conviction as the = traditional=20 three-dollar bill."
 
So there ya go. Thanks again to Josh = for=20 identifying this quotation and putting me on to a really interesting = book.=20
 
-- Crush
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