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From: "ArchD'Ikon Zibethicus" 
Subject: (urth) The Blue Urth Theory
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 09:33:39 +0000

Quoth Mr. Lackey:

>Be that as it may, the mass of textual evidence against Blue
>being Urth/Ushas overwhelms the theory that it is.

Well, I myself am an adherent of _neither_ theory.  I have an open mind, and 
am open to discussion.  Dogmatism troubles me in excessive quantities, 
tho'...and I _have_ called for greater use of textual elements in 
discussion, so I'm glad that you _did_ use texts.

>Proponents of the Blue=Urth/Ushas theory have also claimed that the
>Neighbors were far-future descendents of the people who repopulated Urth 
>after it became Ushas.

I suggested this as a _possibility_ for the purposes of accounting for all 
the plot elements in a way satisfactory to the Blue Urth Theory.

>Where the Green Man fits into that evolution, I don't know.

Well, to be fair to Blue Urth Theorists, I have just gone over COC (BTW - is 
there a list of standard abbrevations?) Ch. III, 'The Showman's Tent', and 
have been unable to find a statement from the Green Man to the effect that 
he actually comes from Urth.  What he _does_ say is: "I am a free man, come 
from your own future to explore your age." (p. 27, Arrow p/back.) He also 
says that his sun is much brighter, but that he has no idea whether it is 
the New Sun or not...  If I was desperately trying to defend the Blue Urth 
Theory, I could observe that this increase of brightness could be 
attributable to an origin on an entirely different world with a different, 
brighter sun, rather than the New Sun.  We know now that Typhon sent 
colonisers out on the Whorl; is there any statement anywhere that the Whorl 
was the _only_ ship sent out?  What about other states and empires in the 
whole, vast history of Urth?  Why couldn't the Ascians have forced their own 
surplus population into space?

And, in any case, does the Green Man ever stipulate exactly _where_ in the 
future he does come from?  And, if not, why couldn't he come from Urth or 
Blue (if the two are different) or wherever, in a period _after_ the time of 

>"I've been thinking about it, and about the City of the Inhumi on Green. 
>Those were ruins left by the Neighbors' ancient race; these were left by 
>ours, I believe--we are as ancient as they, or nearly." > (IGJ, 315)

I don't quite understand how this quote can be used to make a case that "At 
any rate, the text contradicts the theory that the Neighbors were some 
future evolutionary stage of humanity on Blushas."

I am not at all convinced that "the Neighbors were some future evolutionary 
stage of humanity on Blushas", myself, but I fail to see how that text can 
be used as evidence against the Theory, if only because this is only the 
conjecture of HornSilkIncanto (HSI).  HSI may not be in full possession of 
the facts, as are many of the characters in Mr. Wolfe's divers works, 
including Severian himself.

As I said in an earlier posting, I believe that Mr. Wolfe places all the 
necessary elements to an adequate comprehension of his work within the work 
itself, but I don't believe that the conjecture of a character within the 
work is necessarily adequate evidence in its own right, as his all-too-human 
characters are often mistaken or hasty in drawing conclusions, as are we 

I find it more evidential that the Neighbours themselves told Horn (OBW Ch. 
11, 'The Land of Fires' p.271) "From this whorl we sprang...[t]here are 
rocks and rivers, trees and islands here that have been famous among us for 
many thousands of years."  Now if we can only agree on exactly _where_ it 
was that these words were spoken (if they were)...


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