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From: "James Wynn" 
Subject: RE: (urth) Poor Moly
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 14:51:07 -0600

Look what you've done! I had resigned myself to let this go, and now you've
stirred me up again. I'll take this out of order with part of your theory
that drives craziest:

Roy said:
Except for paint, to show rank or which city to whom they belonged, the
soldiers all looked exactly alike--they were mass-produced by the millions.
There is no reason to believe that it was any different for the servant
chems. Molybdenum looked just like Magnesia who looked just like every other
femchem. That's what made it so easy for Marble to lie to Hammerstone about
being Moly--he couldn't tell the difference. She didn't have a faceplate
anymore, anyway. How was he to know one femchem from another, especially
since he was so eager to find _any_ femchem available for reproduction.
Marble could have been a slut from another city for all he cared. She was
female and would have him; that's all that really mattered to him. He wasn't
going to look a gift-horse in the mouth.

Crush responds:
If one femchem was as good as another to Hammerstone, why did he leave
Marble and have the child they were making broken up when she revealed that
she was Magnesia?

Whether femchems **looked** the same or not (and I contend there **must**
have been **some** visual difference so bios could tell who they were
dealing with and so they could locate chems who ran away without paying
their building indenture), surely Hammerstone knew **something** of the
particular femchem he was married/engaged to like say... ***where she
worked.****  You aren't denying I presume that Hammerstone and Moly ever

Roy also said:
One more time. Yes, Silk was clueless. So was Mint (see below). None of them
knew, then, that the Ayuntamiento was composed of chems, or of Tarsier's
engineering abilities, abilities you persistently ignore.

"I have heard it said that she was the oldest biochemical person in this
quarter, and it may well have been true. _She belonged to the last of those
fortunate generations for which prosthetic devices remained_, devices whose
principles are lost even to our wisest." (emphasis added)

Crush responds:
Either Silk or Mint is less clueless than the other. Mint's statement does
not **deny** that the ability to **construct** bio-prosthesis from scratch
had been left behind on Urth.  Mint clearly **presumes** that Rose's
prosthesis, like Xiphias', were salvaged from the Short Sun days. Silk,
based on his discussion with Horn in LS2:1, is convinced they are **not**.
So I guess it **would** comes down to who you believe, except for the puzzle
of the picture and the puzzle of trunk in LS3.

Tarsier's engineering skills only support my model rather than yours since
he used **chems** to give the Ayuntamiento bodies - which is where I say
Rose's prosthesis came from. The Ayuntamiento got the equivalent of a
**whole body prosthesis**. There is no textual evidence he had the skill to
do any more than alter chem parts for bio use.

Roy continues:
The question of whether or not prosthetics can still be made, or are being
made, becomes moot for purposes of this argument. The quote establishes,
once again, that Rose got her prosthetics many years ago (two generations),
when they were still readily available. That suffices to undermine your
theory that they came from Betel, who had taken them from a
murdered/martyred chem maid. There was no need for that.

Crush responds:
Where are you getting this? We know Rose got her parts about 40 years ago
(probably less). Actually you have argued that she got *most* of her parts
more recently. That is NOT **many** years ago by any stretch, nor is it the
time period typically associated with "two generations." It **is** a time
period in which 250 year-old **salvaged** parts might begin to become scarce
for a wide variety of reasons. But it is not enough time for a valuable,
lucrative craft to become rare as opposed to common. But as I say, where she
got the parts, depends on who you believe. If it were only Mint's testimony
we had to deal with we could presume Rose's prosthetics were like Xiphias'.
But hers is not the only testimony and we still have the picture and trunk

The only reason I have for saying Betel got the parts first, is the flags in
the **text**. Marble insisted on continuously being shriven of her "lie" to
**Betel**. Marble inherits from **Betel** yellowed ivory beads (which I
assure you are remarkably like betel nuts in color and shape) on a silver
chain (the color of molybdenum). Not from the text, but also significant IMO
is that "betel" is a narcotic made from the leaves of the betel vine mixed
with mineral lime. I'd love to drop the Betel connection if I could. It
would make everything so much more tidy.

-- Crush


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