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From: "James Wynn" 
Subject: RE:  (urth) FW: Elucidations of the Long Sun:Hyacinth
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:29:27 -0500

William Ansley said:
I don't agree with you on the necessity of Hyacinth being a chem. In
fact, we seem to be interpreting Wolfe's words so radically
differently, I doubt we can agree on much.

Crush responds:
This is a very good point. This recent thread has taught me how naive I was
to think everyone would read Wolfe in the same way I do. I never let a word
or conversation go without critical investigation. When Oosik goes on about
how he wishes he were in Silk's place with Hyacinth, I say "why's he doing
this?" When Chenille compares Hy to Poppy (copy) I say "what is her point?"
Naturally, this leads to all sorts of theories that are weird to someone who
is willing to give Wolfe the benefit of the doubt regarding "honest"
narrative motives. I don't know if that category includes you. But I see now
that there are people who read him that way unless clearly shown otherwise.

Actually, even among people who DO read him the way I do, I've yet (to my
knowledge) gained a single convert. But they probably won't convert until
they re-read the books for themselves and see that mine is the necessary
conclusion to tie all the clues together (that's the way, it would be for
me) - in spite of the red-herrings.

William Ansley said:
You cite Silk's line
"There are so many lies in the whorl...May I instance you one more?
Hyacinth subdued our pilot, Hyacinth alone." as support for the idea
that Hyacinth is a chem, if I understand you correctly. It seems to
me to be just the opposite.

Your reasoning seems to be:
-Hyacinth did defeat the pilot alone.
-A normal flesh and blood woman would have had a very hard time doing
this while a chem would have had an easy time of it.
-Therefore, it is very likely that Hyacinth is a chem.
-Silk is aware there is something fishy about how Hyacinth defeated
the pilot so he say the line above.

But surely, the statement "Hyacinth subdued our pilot, Hyacinth
alone." is *true* if Hyacinth defeated the pilot by herself, whether
she is a chem or a bio. The only thing that would make it a lie is if
she *had help from someone else*! I have no idea what form this help
might have taken or who it was from (or even if she really did have
help) but the way I interpret Silk's remark is that he suspects that
Hyacinth had help, not that she is a chem with super-strength. If
Silk had said something along the lines of "There are so many lies in
the whorl...May I instance you one more? Hyacinth subdued our pilot,
Hyacinth, a mere weak, flesh-and-blood woman." then I'd say you had a

Crush responds:
Hmmm. I consider the lies of the Whorl to be more intricate than that. They
are lies about lies or lies that cannot be corrected because they are
actually true in a universe of lies. The lie is that Hyacinth overpowered
the pilot, but the Hyacinth she apparently is could never do that.

But perhaps I'm wrong, then I'd be very interested in your explanation of
how the conversation between Horn and Silk (which takes place between Horn's
words "Won't you please tell me what's wrong? Please, Calde?" and Silks
words "It's obvious isn't?") explains why Silk tried to kill himself.  Silk
insists the explanation is there. How do YOU tie the whole conversation into
one single explanation? Or do you say Silk tried to kill himself because
someone helped Hy overpower the pilot?

-- Crush.


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