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From: Mark Kelly <mpk@realtimecontrol.com>
Subject: (urth) Claw / Rose? and other musings
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:15:08 +0100

Hi everyone,

I've just finished the mailing list archives and I must say it is =
fascinating reading. Thanks to mantis for the Urth bibliography he =
posted a couple of weeks ago -sorry I haven't had a chance to reply =
until now. I've had a few thoughts of my own:

Re: The Claw / the Rose
On Thur, 21 May 1998, Michael Straight <straight@email.unc.edu> wrote:
> There's the passage (in Citadel?) where Severian is on the beach and =
> across the rose bushes and sees that the thorns all look just like the
> Claw and he removes his boots recognizing that he is always standing =
> holy ground, everything is holy, all thorns are the Claw.

If the Claw is in fact a rose thorn (as opposed to a thorn from any =
other type of plant), then could this be an explanation for the rose =
motif on Severian1's gravestone - i.e. the rose represents the Claw? It =
would be more subtle than having a picture of a thorn/the Claw. Also, =
while the coin appears to symbolize Vodalus's coin, which occurs at the =
start of Shadow, Severian doesn't find the rose bushes until Citadel or =
the ship Tzadkiel until either the end of Citadel or TUOTNS (can't =
remember which), so maybe Wolfe's intention was to keep the reader =
wondering about the significance of the rose and the ship for as long as =
possible? If the symbol on the grave had been the Claw/thorn, then the =
reader could have realised its significance as soon as Severian finds =
the Claw.

Re: Seven American Nights
I haven't read this story myself, but while I was reading though the =
archive I came across a reference to a woman having a deformity that =
couldn't be detected in the dark. I immediately thought of a birthmark =
of some sort, as it could not be felt in the dark, but would be =
immediately obvious in the light. Would this make sense in the context =
of the story?

Re: Urth Music
How about some suggestions about music to listen to while reading =
TBOTNS? I propose the music of Dead Can Dance, which is difficult to =
describe but combines orchestral, medieval and world instruments, songs =

*More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.urth.net/urth/

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